Just 2 Minutes - Interviews by Kamil Sarji

Driveway Protection: Why Seal Coating Matters with Gian Paris

• Kamil Sarji • Episode 42

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Your driveway takes a beating from the elements—sun, rain, snow, and daily wear. But did you know that seal coating is the key to extending its life and keeping it looking fresh? In this episode, Gian Paris, owner of Blacked Out Seal Coating, shares expert insights on why seal coating is essential for homeowners and real estate professionals.

From preventing cracks and potholes to boosting curb appeal and property value, we break down the real benefits of seal coating. Whether you're a homeowner, realtor, or property investor, this is a must-listen for anyone who wants to protect their driveway investment.

Plus, Gian reveals common mistakes to avoid, how often you should seal coat, and the best time of year to get it done. Don't miss these pro tips!

🔹 Topics Covered: 

✔️ Why seal coating is a game-changer for driveways
✔️ The biggest threats to your pavement (and how to fight them)
✔️ How seal coating saves money in the long run
✔️ When and how often you should seal coat
✔️ The best seal coating products & techniques

🎧 Listen now and make sure your driveway stays in top shape for years to come!



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Welcome, everybody. I'm Kamil Sarji, the host of Just Two Minutes. And today I have Gianne here. Gianne want to tell us about yourself? Yes, hi. My name's Gian Paris. I'm owner of Black Doubt Seal Coating. I will based out of Coventure, Rhode Island. So I've been Seal Coding, good in business for a couple of years now. And I really love our job and what we do. Awesome. Yeah. So you're here today to answer the Just Two Minutes questions. But then you know, I want to talk about the business, what we as realtors need to know or shouldn't know about driveways, seal coding, all that stuff. Yep. You're ready for this. Yeah, let's do it. It's craziness. Yeah, let's do it. All right. And go. Okay, if you were to replace your feet with something else, what would you or would you replace them with? Tires. Tires? I would replace them with tires so I can go faster. You get to places faster. I agree. That's awesome. And especially Seal Coding, you know, finished jobs a lot quicker. If aliens abducted you and they only wanted to learn what snacks humans love, what would you, how would you introduce that to them? Oh, snacks. Well, a lot of humans like to eat some junk food. So of course, we definitely have to give them some junk food. You know, maybe some candy bars, some skittles, and then give them some some healthy snacks as well. Okay, so skittles is the one you. Yeah, skittles give them some skittles. Yep. Okay, so if you were president and you can make up a ridiculous rule that people have to do, ridiculous rule. Shake everybody's hand. Okay, wake up and shake everybody's hand. Yep. If you could switch lives with one cartoon character. Yeah, who would it be? I would love to be the Bumblebee. Bumblebee. Yep, that would be that would be the character that would be Bumblebee. Yep. He seems like has the coolest life. Definitely, you know, it's a nice Camaro and everything. So he can't beat that. And he has gentle tires where he doesn't mess up the driver. Exactly. Yep. And if he wants to, and if he wants to, he can rip him apart, you know, bashful. That's right. Tell me more about your business. So how you got started in the business. Okay, so I got started and basically just kind of a little bit of background information, you know, on the school teacher. And we've been teaching for about 25 years. You know, I wanted to get into something else on the side. I do have summers off and one of the things, you know, I was like at a different options of what we could do and seal coding. It just caught my eye a few years ago. And I just loved the aesthetics of things. And I like seeing something that needs a little bit of work that can be brought back to beauty. And I think driveways you can do that with. So I ended up doing a bunch of research, got in contact with Asheville Kingdom. They're a great company to work with, contacted some people there. And they put me in contact with, with the guy down in Long Island, Dom Anzo. And he was happening to work on some Amazon lots. And they were doing number stalls. And he was in, and he said, hey, you want to come and jump on a ride along and get to work. And I said, absolutely. And I worked with him for a day. And I was hooked. And from there, we started doing some line striping, number stalling for Amazon, or basically is they're parking lots would be numbered. And then each parking spot had different numbers form. So started spray painting them with the machines. And from there, got into seal coding and from seal coding, everything really took off. So it went very, very quickly. So you had a ton of experience doing huge lots. So we were started, started with the line striping. And then from there, started with residentials. We did a lot of residential seal coding. And then now we're working towards commercials. So it's been a nice ride. But one of the things I love about seal coding is just meeting a lot of different clients. Like I've met a lot of great people. I met you doing, doing your lot. And I still keep in keeping contact with clients. And I really love what I do. I really, really do. So it's been a great journey so far. I know when I look at the house or I'm showing someone a house, and the driveway is just a mess. It's called rooftop cracks. I know that a nice fresh seal code or fresh asphalt would make that look more amazing. But the cost is up there. Yes. In order to redo a driveway, it's very expensive. You need three to five man crew. You need the equipment, the material. So the best bet is to maintain the driveway that you have. And you know, when you do pull up to a driveway and you see it freshly sealed, all the cracks are filled in. There's no vegetation. It makes the house pop as well as the landscape. So when you have the black driveway, flowers along the walkway, everything just kind of pops. So it does make it look really, really nice. Now you're sealed coding the driveway, right? Yeah. It's made out of asphalt. So there are two types. There's coltar and asphalt emotion that we use. So we use coltar. What it is is coltar. And that's what we use just because the product lasts a little bit longer than the asphalt emotion. It ends up being better for if you have oil spills, gasoline spills, as well as a freeze-throw cycle. So I'm using the coltar. It lasts a bit longer than the asphalt emotion. So when you're looking at a driveway, you kind of, all right, there's some oil stains in the car. This is probably the best application. So yeah, so whenever we see oil stains, we automatically, what we do is we end up cleaning them prior to seal coding because the sealer can sometimes have difficulty bonding to asphalt when there are oil stains on the ground. So usually what we do is we end up using like a nice 8-inch wire wheel brush. We kind of, you know, clean at the oil stains, clean the area up. Then we put some tyrannical prep seal. And what the prep seal does, it allows the sealer to adhere to the asphalt. So if you don't do that process over time, that sealer will wear off with those oil spots. Okay. So you only put that there in bad spots? Yes, correct. Yep. Okay. Interesting. What about cement driveways? So we just deal with asphalt driveways. If there's any cement issues cracking, you know, we usually have a cement contract that will come in and take care of those driveways. So we just strictly deal with asphalt. Okay. Yeah, it's rare that I see that, but sometimes I do see. Do you partner up with companies like paving company? Yep. Yep. So what we do is we'll do small pothole repair. If a customer calls, calls us and says, can you come take a look at our driveway? You know, I have all these cracks. If it's really bad, we're going to let the client know that it's not worth repairing the driveway and spending the money on seal coding it, crack filling it, as well as the pothole repair. Sometimes driveways are too far gone or beyond the point of repair, unfortunately. So how does it get that way? Well, that's that's the biggest thing is maintenance part. You need to maintain a driveway. A driveway is a very important asset of your house. It's very expensive to replace and to install. So with the proper maintenance schedule, every two to three years, seal code the driveway, what that will do is extend the life of a driveway by at least 20 years by maintaining it, especially being here in the Northeast. You know, we get the frees though a cycle. So if you have minimal cracks, water gets in them, they freeze, they'll expand, creating larger cracks, which will just destroy the driveway. So that's why you really need to keep on top of it. And when you do see those cracks forming, you need to have somebody come in, clean the cracks out, apply hot rubber into the cracks, let in and seal it. That's the best thing to do. And you can just have a company come in and just crack seal your driveway and just filling cracks. I want to talk about cracks in a second, but I want to talk about the paving. Have you seen like bad paving jobs? Yeah, you definitely have seen bad paving jobs. A big thing with paving is you really need to have a strong base. You know, you really have to have a strong base and you need to have three to four inches of material when you pave a driveway a lot because nowadays you have Amazon trucks coming into your lot back and forth. You know, especially, you know, if you have somebody who likes to water a lot of Amazon packages, you know, we all do. I know, I know that person. Yeah, I do too. Yep, exactly. Amazon drivers coming into our driveway a lot or even UPS. When those trucks are very heavy and what they'll do is a way to those trucks will eventually begin to depress on the asphalt if you don't have a strong base. So sometimes it's worth spending a little bit more money doing it properly than spending less money than doing it, you know, not so right. And I know things do get very expensive at times, but you know, even if you have to wait in extra years, sometimes it might be worth waiting a little bit longer to do things properly. And then it will also last a little bit longer when you have to crack seal and do all the maintenance aspects of the driveway. How can a homeowner know if they're getting the job done right for a paving? So a big thing is ask a lot of questions. Google is your friends, you know, look at all the reviews. See how long somebody has been in business. Look at what are the reviews of people are writing about the company. You know, just ask questions. Do your research. That's the biggest thing that you can say is do your research take a little bit of time and find out the right questions to ask. Okay. And then they get this pavement done brand new. When do you come in to Priscilla? So I come in about a year after. So what you want to do is you want to have some of the oils be released from the asphalt because we're in the northeast. We have the cold. We don't have the sun drying the pavement up. We would come in in about a year later. Nine, nine months to a year later is the best time to seal the driveway. Okay. Yeah. Obviously can't be in the winter. No, it cannot be in the winter. It cannot be in the winter. Because you want it to dry more. Steel coat products that we use usually we're looking at when we seal a driveway. We look at we don't want temperatures to get below 50 degrees at night. And then if it's very, very hot, you're really working with the sealer because the sealer is literally drying as you are applying it and you have to work the sealer around. It depends on the method that you apply the sealer with. And that's why you started this business because the summer is where the summer exactly summer spring and fall. And I mean, we're working on the weekends and the spring, you know, after school, you know, I'll start a project. If it's a if it's a larger drive, what I'll do is I'll do all the prep work. There's a lot of prep work to sealing a driveway. You really need to clean it thoroughly. If you don't clean it thoroughly, that sealer will not adhere to the ash well. Especially oil stains. Especially the oil stains, you know, we have moss. That's one thing that we do get a lot. And there are some driveways where, you know, I spend a whole day cleaning the driveway with my wire wheel machine just to clean all the moss off or what we can do is power wash the driveway down because what the moss will do is it will not allow the sealer to adhere to the ash fault. So it's very important. You want to clean the edges of the driveway as well because the side to the driveway you're looking at, you know, three to four inches of ash fault. On the side, that needs to be sealed as well. Not just the top, you want to get the entire ash fault surface. Okay. And then the cracks around the perimeter of the ash faults. What do you do with that? So the cracks. So, you know, so when it's... Good cracks. You know, the cracks that are set up around where it's supposed to be. You know, where it meets the stairs. The stairs. So that usually that is fine. What we'll do is we make sure we seal. We seal up until where the stairs and the ash fault meets. And that's we. But we also recommend doing at the end of the driveway where the driveway meets the road. There's always that little gap. And what happens is water infiltrates that gap. And if you notice a lot of driveways, where do they have cracking at the end of the driveway? Because the town doesn't come in and seal the gap between the road and the driveway. And water, especially being in the winter, we'll get in there, snow, ice, expand, you know. And then a little over time, what you have is, you begin to have these cracks because the base can get ruined from the water as it infiltrates and seeps through through the ash fault. And that's where you begin to have the cracks. So it's always good to have the end of the driveway crack sealed with the road meets. So you just have no access of water. Because water is your enemy. So you're carefully making sure you're taking care of this driveway. So that doesn't cause any problems in the future. Do you think everybody does what you do? Yes, companies will look for that. But I think what you need to do, if you're looking for a company, you need to ask them the questions. What about the road with the street meets the ash with the street meets the driveway? What can we do? That's something that we do. You know, we take pride in other people's property. I go to somebody's property and I treat it as my own property with the care that we take. Yeah, I remember I talked to three companies and I liked yours because you take time to actually, you pointed out a lot of things that I didn't even know about and you educated me on the whole process. Thank you. Yeah. And that's what I like to do. And I like to try to educate people on what to look for, how to prolong the life of your asphalt. As again, if you have to replace the driveway, it's going to be very expensive. Definitely. You know, so it's very important to keep up with the maintenance. It's like changing oil in a car. You have to change it every, you know, so many thousand miles and depending on the vehicle. So you really need to take care of your driveway as well. Yeah, I had no idea. And I just recently, you know, I just just did the driveway. Yes, yep. And I, you know, it looked awesome. Yeah, beautiful. Anything. But actually, you know, if I want to preserve this and keep this for 20 years. And the best thing for you to do is what we do is we get on to a maintenance program. So, you know, every couple of years, we come, we assess the driveway, see if it needs to be seal-coded. If it doesn't, then we wait another year. And then we revisit it. Since your business, you have a lot of traffic with cars in and out. You're going to have more wear and tear on that seal coat. So you might need to do a little bit sooner than somebody who has, you know, a regular driveway. As many people come in in and out, unless you have a lot of Amazon packages coming to your house. So, potholes. Yes, potholes. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, fixing that, how do you fix that? Yes. So, what I'll do is, depending on the size of the pothole, you know, we do do pothole repair. We also do. If some cracks are too large, what we'll do is we'll end up cutting them out with the demo saw, compacting the area, filling it with the appropriate product, appropriate gravel. And then we will fill it in with a product that we use. It's called aquafault. And what it is, is it's a cold patch. It's the best stuff on the market right now. And that's what we do. It prevents water from coming in. Yep. And the water comes in free. Free store. And then next thing, you know, you have those cracks opening up again. So usually, what we'll do is we'll get it as tight as we can. So there are no cracks. So, but all right. So, and that's filled with what again? So what we do is we'll fill it. We we compact the potholes. We make sure, you know, the potholes, what we'll do is we try to do is we'll cut out the pothole, cut it out. So it's, you know, perfectly square, rectangular, or whatever we want to make it look aesthetically pleasing. And then what we'll do is we'll compact the materials that's there. We'll add any other material that needs to be added to it. So you saw, you saw the area you take what was there, crunch it up. We'll remove the old asphalt. Yeah. Take it out. Compact the area at any gravel that we need to add. And then what we'll do is we'll add the cold patch. And we use a plate compactor to go over it. So it's nice and flat. Okay. So the, the product you're putting on top of is it's going to look like asphalt. It will look like asphalt. It will look a little different. But unfortunately, when you do half patches, it's never going to be perfect. But what will, what you can do is seal coat over it. And then that will make it look more uniformed. Yeah. That's the best thing to do. Okay. And then cracks. They're so annoying. It goes from one side to the other. Yes. Yeah. How do you fix that? Because I've seen like horrible jobs where the tire just drags it out. Yeah. And again, being some of the weather that we get here, you can get very hot. And that hot rubber, what happens is it will get soft. And then just the tire marks and just the weight of the vehicle will rip it right out. So the process is this is what you want to do is you have the cracks. If there's any vegetation in those cracks, it has to be removed. You have to get that vegetation out. What you want to do is you want to clean that crack thoroughly. Okay. You don't want to have it wet. It needs to be nice and dry. And then what we come in is we use hot rubber. We have a machine where it melts these 30, 30 pound blocks. It's basically recycled rubber and heats it up to about three, 53, 75. And then what we do is we inject the cracks. We go right over it with the machine. And then what we do is we end up adding basically it's just gravity fed. Just gravity fed. And it just goes slow. It just pushes it in. Sometimes what we might have to do is we might have to do two passes depending on how the crack is. If the cracks are really large, then we might fill it in with the material. Just so the crack sealer will just be nice and uniform. And it will go right over and just form a nice layer. And what we will do is we'll add something called progret. Progret is it's this black material, tiny, tiny, tiny little pieces of material that we place on top of the hot rubber. And what that does, that avoids the tacking of the hot rubber when it gets hot. So it's called progret. It's other way, other names, it's called black beauty is another name that they'll use for it. And that really helps with the tacking and the pulling of the hot rubber in the summer months. So all my driveways that I do, we always use the progret always because you don't want to have to come back and fix it. You know, virtually sometimes that does happen, but we make sure we put enough product enough for that progret on there so that there are no issues. Yeah. What if it's really bad? You saw the whole thing out and like three, or is that too much of a, again, every job is different. You know, I mean, if we're looking at some huge cracks, again, we've had some larger cracks that we've dealt with where we've, we've all sorted out. And we would just end up putting, you know, the aquafault material, which is just a cold patch compact it and it lasts for a bit. So it's a great alternative. And then if there are huge patches or whatever, then, you know, we'll make some calls and just have somebody else come in and take care of the larger areas because sometimes the jobs are just might be a little bit too big. And we'll just have somebody else come in and do it. Because again, you need some larger vehicles, you need the dump trucks or whatnot for the ash fall cone to the plant. So some of the stuff can be in depth. So we do what we can and stuff that we know that we can't do will outsource it. So before we go into steel coating, once a new pavement's installed, rain is that bad if it rains right after they do that or? No, not not necessarily. No, it's not not not rain. It will only affect seal coat. Yeah. Okay, so seal coat. You have to make sure there's no rain in 24 hours of the application. So let's say we're I'm supposed to seal coat your driveway on a Tuesday, but we're looking at a bunch of rain on Wednesday. We will not do it because I want to make sure that the material cures appropriately for you. So what we will do is we will push jobs back. Unfortunately, there have been times where we might have a flat sort of islands, you know, New England, and we get weather systems that come when they're unexpected. You know, I have like three or four weather apps on my phone and it's the most nerve-wracking thing, you know, because when you do a job, you want it done right for the client and you want it to last. Yeah. That must be tough, like, you know, because you have to work with the weather. Yes. Cancel appointments, smooth things along, and then there's other appointments and like, oh, man, so it's a it's constant juggling. But, you know, there's not one homeowner that I've met that has gotten angry about changing the time. Yeah. So yeah, they want it, they want it right. They want it done right, because they're paying for a product and, and you know, my company, you know, blacked out seal coating, we stand by everything that we do. I want things done the right way and they'll be done the right way. So that's for rain. What about driving on it? Driving on it, wait 48 hours. I would wait 48 hours. Okay. I mean, you can do 24, but I highly recommend 48 hours. Just because when seal coat is freshly, you know, placed on the driveway on the ash, well, you know, cars come in, you have the turning of the wheel with the power steering, and we'll rip that sealer right out. Technically, really, after 48 hours, you're really good to go. You're good to go. I mean, you will see some, some tracking of tire marks of it. All it is is some excess material, excess sand in the sealer. We do add sand to the sealer, just so it doesn't slip. It gets into the nooks and crannies of the ash. Well, so that's one thing you will see. You will see some tire marks for, you know, two to three weeks after the job is done after a nice rain, it kind of washes off. And then you won't see those marks anymore. You know, I have come back for clients because, you know, they might have turned the wheel or whatever and I'll come back into a little touch up. You know, I don't mind doing that. So yeah, I think for mine, we did, did it on a Friday. Yep. I just closed up everything. Yes. Monday, exactly. Because I wanted to, it to be right. And I wanted to last for a long time. And that was the way to do it. But unfortunately, some businesses don't have that luxury. So what we will do is we will add a product to the sealer, which is called like a fast dry. And what that does is that helps the sealer dry quicker. It dries from the bottom up as well as top to bottom from the sun and then from the bottom. So it just, it makes it a lot quicker. So that's something that we use when it's not those 80, 90 degrees days when we get more towards fall is we always put in come about September 1st. We're adding the fast dry or if a client needs to driveway done right away, we'll add the fast dry to the mix. Any condes of using the fast dry? No. If anything, it's more of a pro because what it does is it's a fortifier. It adds a little bit more hardness plus a driest quicker for you. So everybody should be adding that to there. It's yet to it. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. It's just something that you can't, you can't add if you want it to. But it's something that needs to be done at the beginning of the season and the end of the season. So that's what I do. A little extra assurance that I know it's curing correctly. So when I got mine done, you know, it's freshly black driveway. Yep. Now the next part which is important for a business commercial. Yes. Is to have lines. Absolutely. And that's called striping. Striping. Yep. Line striping. Yeah. Someone drove by there were like, oh, because they had that their advertisement. Yes. They're like, oh, stripping. Oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, no, you read it. It's striped. Yes. Correct. Yep. Yep. That's the good thing. You don't want to strip a driveway. No, you don't. That's right. Exactly. Exactly. And it's very, very important, you know, especially being a property owner. If you own commercial properties, you need to have lines visible for your customers coming in. Because if not, you can have lawsuits. Everything needs to be done ADA compliant. So you need to have so many indie cat spots for the amount of spots that you have. So there's a lot that goes to it. So it's very, very important because the owner is responsible for what happens to that lot. So even potholes. That's why potholes need to be addressed. If you have a pothole on your lot, somebody comes driving with, you know, and hits them. And a lot of these cars have the low profile tires, you know, and I mean, I've busted a few and bent a few rims in my time. And that's on the owner. That's your job to maintain the lot. And then also too, if somebody slips and falls, let's say, you know, you have a property and you have cracks everywhere. And somebody slips and trips over a crack. You're responsible. They can sue you for that. So it's very important to keep up with the maintenance of a commercial lot. Very, very important. Yeah. Because you want people to know also, I mean, parking, like, you know, kind of helps people guide them to the right. Correct. Yes. What else besides driveways? Can you seal? So right now we just strictly stick with with asphalt driveways. I would love to expand my business and to possibly getting into some epoxy flooring and then garage design. Poxy flooring is great. There's so much that you can do it with the color pallets that are available as well as really making a garage be functional and look aesthetically beautiful. So I think down the road that's something I would like to get into, you know, because basically you can have all in one. You go from the asphalt driveway into your garage. Yeah. So I think that's how I want to expand. But I also want to obviously grow the business as well, you know, get into a lot more commercial stuff and kind of expand clientele. Starting the business, what things did you not expect as a business owner of a seal cooling company? Hmm. One of the things you, as a business owner, you don't realize how expensive things are for commercial insurance, liability insurance. Inchurances are very expensive, but you need them. Yeah. You know, you look at commercial vehicles, you have to, you have to ensure there's a commercial vehicle because it's a business. So that can be expensive. You general liability can be expensive. You have all these other expenses that you have to take on when you want a business because you want the business to be done right. It's very important to run a business properly. You can't cut corners in business. You really can't, especially with a business that, you know, or in seal coating because things can happen. You know, pipes can can burst, you know, our hoses can blow and that can be a huge problem. So how do you work? So I mean, as a realtor and realtor that are watching this, we need to be able to recommend you to our clients, especially if we're trying to sell the house. Absolutely. Is it expensive to seal code or when you have initial driveway, you know, the first time sealing it, that's when you incur more of a cost just due to it not being sealed before because that asphalt will suck that sealer right in. So the first time is kind of the most expensive time and then after that, if you just maintain it, it can be affordable. You know, again, every driveway is different. You know, you mean? You amount of work prepping it. Absolutely. So it's not just throwing the stuff down. Correct. You know, and again, every driveway is priced out differently. It's the amount of prep work. I mean, if we go to a driveway and it's already been sealed, especially the first time, really aren't any cracks. The homeowner keeps up with the edging of the driveway because we always get to the edge of the driveway. So what we'll do is we'll cut back as much of the grass and vegetation as much as we can because I want to make sure that the driveway is sealed completely. So those edges have all sealer on them. So they're protected. That can be a little bit more costly because it's a little bit more work, you know? But the big thing is if you start from day one and maintain that driveway, those costs will not be that bad. And again, it varies from driveway to driveway. Yeah, and it's definitely important. I highly recommend it. Did I miss anything? Done a very good job. The biggest thing that I can really say is really with dealing with commercial properties, you have to maintain those properties, especially those large lots. If you don't maintain them, you're going to have costs down the road that are going to be expensive. So yeah, it's going to be very expensive. So the best bet is to maintain the driveways, maintain those commercial lots, make sure you're an ADA compliance. And then also for homeowners, homeowners that want to sell their properties. You know, we did a few driveways this year and, you know, the homeowner was getting ready to sell their house and they called us up and I said, absolutely. I said, that's one of the first things you see when you pull into a house is you see a driveway. A lot of people by looking at their driveways, I don't want to buy a house where my driveway is at a 90 degree angle because the wintertime is going to be awful. Or you have a long driveway, that's all gravel or whatnot. So you want to have a nice appearance with the driveway. Yeah, and when I'm taking pictures of a house on listing and I see the driveway and I'm taking the picture, I'm like, oh, I could just Photoshop and brush the thing. It's so easy, but, you know, you don't want to deceive people and think that, but it's definitely worth it, especially the house looks awesome, the grass, the trees or bridges, whatever they have. And that's crappy. Yeah, that looks kind of right. But also to it also, people perceive that as, okay, if the owner isn't taking care of the driveway, what else has the owner not taken care of in the house? Have they been keeping up with things that need to be replaced in the house? So that's one thing that you can tell. It's very important to keep the maintenance of a driveway up. Awesome. So how do people find you? So you can go to blackoutsealcoating.com. You can go to blackoutsealcoating on Instagram, blackoutsealcoating on Facebook. And my phone number is 401424 SEAL. Awesome. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for that. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

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