38 - Brand Yourself Like a Pro: Tips for Real Estate Agents with Justin Kerr

Unlock the secrets to building an authentic and impactful personal brand as a real estate agent with branding expert Justin Kerr from Justin Kerr Design. Dive into actionable strategies, creative insights, and fresh ideas to elevate your presence in the competitive real estate market. Whether you're rebranding or starting fresh, this episode delivers practical tips for leveraging your unique story, standing out, and building trust with your clients. Justin shares parallels between rebranding and house renovations, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and connecting with your audience.

Don't miss this insightful conversation packed with value for real estate agents ready to differentiate themselves and grow their business. Start building a brand that truly reflects you and resonates with your clients today!

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Chapters

• 1:52 Just 2 Minutes Questions
• 4:58 The Interview

Transcript

0:00

What's the term rebranding to you? Like, how would you, I think one way to look at it might be like a house renovation, right? You find a place it's the right location and it's got good bones, you know, the structure's there, but man, it needs a lot of help, right? Cause it's sort of past its prime, you know, the essence of it is there, but you really need to rework it. I think the most important thing for me is authenticity. And we definitely talked about that. There's a lot of talented. Designers out there. There's a lot of talented brand strategists out there. And you know the for me I like to focus on the authenticity. Tell me what's going on now And what it does is it disconnects them from the day to day? And allows them to fantasize and think about where do I want to be in 10 years? What is the vision for my company or for my organization? Welcome everybody. I'm camille sargi the host of just two minutes and today we have justin Justin, you want to tell us about yourself? Absolutely. I typically introduce myself to people by saying I'm a brand strategist, a designer, and a pirate, but not necessarily in that order. Pirate, yes. We can talk a little bit about the, the pirate brand. Where I focus is I work with my clients and I help them communicate their authentic brand. To the right audience, so we work together to develop brand strategies and visual brands to find that authentic part of themselves and then communicate that to their target audience. Nice and that connect every single agent has their brand and yeah, that's what I want to talk about today. Awesome. Yeah, I've actually worked with a few. Real estate agents. Nice. You know, independent ones to help them find that unique thing about what they do and who they are. And then communicate that because it's hard to distinguish yourself in the marketplace, whether you're a real estate agent, whether you're an accountant, whether you're a tattoo artist, whether you sell medical devices, no matter what you do, people are looking for a way to get their authentic self across so that they can distinguish themselves and connect with the people that resonate with that brand. Hmm. So rather than sort of a shotgun approach of let me appeal to everybody. Now, let me find that group of people that really resonate with my brand and work with them and give them a good experience. And then they will refer me out to other people who will also resonate with my brand. It's amazing. The show's called just two minutes. Okay. I have some questions for the just two minutes. All right. Are you ready? Absolutely. And start. All right. So how many different categories are there for pirates? And could you name them? Categories for pirates? Well, the one big difference between pirates and privateers is privateers were retained by governments to do basically legal pirating. So, say, England might be at war with France or Spain, so England would hire pirates to raid the ships of their enemies, and they would give them a letter of marque, which was an official government document saying, this pirate is working for the government of England, and they are protected by the government of England, and they can raid any ships that we happen to be at war with. Wow, that's pretty cool. So, if you're a privateer, you have the protection of the government. If you're a pirate, you're an entrepreneur. Alright, so what is walking the plank and is it healthy? Well, walking the plank is something that has come about through popular literature. about pirates. It popped up in the 19th century. Jonathan Swift and other writers at the time who were sort of romanticizing about pirates came up with this walking the plank device as a way of sort of a like a literature device. There probably were pirates like Blackbeard that Actually went through the trouble of making people walk the plank to intimidate them. But if you wanted to get somebody off your ship, really the easiest way to do it was just throw them over the side. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. I wonder if they actually did that. So next is why do parrots always hang out with pirates? That's a good question. Maybe they're very close to one another on a personality scale or something, but so at the time during the golden age of piracy, which would have been end of the 17th century, beginning of the 18th century, things like parrots. Parrot. That's it. Go ahead. Yeah. I was going to say, things like parrots and monkeys were still considered very exotic. There were only certain places where you could get them. You wouldn't find them in Europe. You'd only find them in places like Africa and the island of Madagascar. So they were really unique and exotic. So it was kind of having something really special to show people, Hey, I've been around and I'm actually quite wealthy because I can afford a parrot or a monkey. Wow. It's like a status symbol. Yeah. Uh, it'd be like having a, you know, pair of, uh, high end sneakers or something like that. Big giant diamond or a cool hat that is unique that only one person made. As a matter of fact, in the 18th century, buttons were a symbol of status. So the number of buttons on your jacket and what they were made of showed other people how wealthy you were. Wow. Wow. And among pirates. Buttons could even be a form of currency. Wow. Yeah, it's cool. I'm sure you know a lot about pirates. So that's why I thought I'd ask you these. I appreciate that. Okay, we'll talk about pirates in a second. So branding. Why do you think it's important for someone to just focus on an audience or niche? Like, why do you think that's important versus like shotgun approach? Right. It's difficult because convincing a client to niche down their market focus makes them feel like they're leaving something. Off the table. But what it's really doing is helping them focus on the audience. That's most likely to resonate with what they do and who they are, their brand and their why. And honestly, narrowing your focus, your market focus, and really honing your brand is going to be more. lucrative in the long run because you'll be focusing on those people that really want to work with you and will refer you out to other people. Whereas a shotgun approach, if you only catch 30 percent of the people that you're shotgunning into, you're working in a very narrow return on investment band. Whereas if you're focused on a market that resonates with your brand, you may be catching 60, 70, 80%. Of that focus. So it's just a higher percentage of return. And I think the experience is better too, because, you know, narrowing your focus allows you to work with people who really want to work with you and who you really want to work with. And it eliminates a lot of the market space. That's a better fit for somebody else. Okay. So, so if they're focusing just on, on that, right. And try to capture as much of that. Audience who they're branding themselves to, would they refuse others or not really take on other others that don't match their criteria? I mean, that's really more of a business decision for the individual who they want to take on and who they don't, but their brand helps them attract the right audience for them. So within that stream, then they have the opportunity to say, yes, I want to take this on, or no, I don't want to take that on, but it just brings a a more qualified category of clientele to them, rather than just a wide swath where maybe 60 percent or more isn't really a good fit for them. Because what you're ultimately looking for is a good fit, right? So when you develop your brand and you communicate effectively what you're about, you're going to attract light and you'll have not only a better experience, but I think in the long run, a higher return on that. Narrow focus of investment in your marketing and your brand. Have you found it difficult to get clients to see the light, which is narrowing? Yeah, it's a challenge because like I said before, they feel like they're missing out on something, but what they're missing out on is. Bad fit projects or bad fit clients, which is what you would want to eliminate, right? You want to focus in an area where you can be of the most effect and have the greatest value to the people that you're working with. So, you know, it's like example, worked with one real estate agent recently. And her focus was community involvement, and she really wanted to make that part of what she was doing. So she's going to be attracting and picking up people who are also community minded and involved in the community. Whereas, if she were taking a shotgun approach, she might miss those people because it wouldn't be part of her message and they wouldn't necessarily pick up on, I'd really like to work with this person because they're like me. They're very focused on the community and community development. And we really work with people that we like to work with. I mean, certainly being competent in what you do is important and having the right skills is important. But at the end of the day, we like to work with people that we like. And people that we resonate with. So part of branding and narrowing that focus is finding those people that resonate with you, they're going to have a much better experience, which is going to increase the livelihood word of mouth from them is going to bring in even more people that will resonate with that brand. Okay. For real estate agents, it's anybody who wants to. Sell buy or invest in real estate. Sure. So, but let me ask you this question. So you brand yourself as, you know, gold door realty, right? Why gold door? What is that? What kind of message are you trying to send out by making that part of your name and part of your brand? Oh, no, you're interviewing me. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Yeah. I guess the vision I had years ago was building something for the people. Cause I was the people making it unique, making it super techie, ton of support, more money in people's pockets and more, you know, being creative and coming up with ways to help them. May be successful, whatever that is to them. Okay. And have you had any feedback from people on why they chose to work with you versus Somebody else. I think it's the trust and maybe seeing me and like how dedicated I am to everybody. I'm the broker who's there for their agents nine Florida sipping on a martini. You know, like I want to be there. I want to answer questions. I want to coach them, mentor them, be creative with them and come up with ways where they can do business that's special to them. I guess kind of like branding. Because that is part of your brand. So a couple things that you mentioned about, you know, being creative for your clients, being there for them and not down in Florida somewhere and working with them to find the best solution. I mean, your brand ultimately, and this is a quote from Jeff Bezos, your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. So if people are saying things about you like, he's right there for me when I need him, he comes up with all these creative ways of helping me reach my goals in regards to, you know, buying and selling, that's part of your brand. Now, gold door realty might have a certain sort of catch to it or ring to it, which is great. But when people see that name on your business card or on a brochure or on a website, the first thing you're going to connect to is what kind of experience did I have with Camille? That's your brand, right? And they're going to tell other people that that was their experience that they had with you and your brand then. Expands and goes out further, you know? Yeah. I found it tough to, so the reason I didn't call it Sargi Realty or Camille is because I wanted people to own it, to feel like it's theirs. Like Goldor is me, but the more I realize is I'm the brand. Pretty much. You are. Yeah, you are. And if you think about, you know, some famous brands, right? Well, what does a green mermaid have to do with coffee? Not much, really. But when you see that green mermaid logo, you instantly think about the last experience you had at Starbucks, good, bad, or otherwise, right? Your experience with that brand Is the brand now the logo is just a Device to trigger that memory of what your experience was like so like gold door realty people see it It's going it triggers What kind of experience did I have or what kind of experience did my friend have? That said that they worked with camille, right? That's how your brand moves out and affects people. So having an authentic brand Not just the logo, but the whole experience is important. Not only distinguish you from the next realtor, but also to resonate with the audience that you're really aiming for. You want to work with clients who appreciate your creativity, who appreciate the fact that you're there and you take personal interest in Their goals, right? Now there'll be other people that don't care about those things. Those aren't your customers. Those aren't your clients. So that's where the brand really sort of hits the road and starts working for you is what are people saying about you? What was their experience with you? Interesting. I never thought of it that way, but yeah, with people being different. And do you find it difficult? Narrowing down what, yeah, it's hard, it's counterintuitive, um, and you feel some resistance to like with what you suggest or what you see could be, yeah, but the reason that I believe in finding that authentic aspect of your brand and sort of narrowing the focus is because I had that experience, sorry I just whacked the microphone, I had that experience personally. Yeah. So when I. First started on my own. I branded myself like every other graphic designer out there, every other brand strategist out there. And it wasn't until 2019 when I was in business incubator workshop with a bunch of other creatives. We were talking one night and I had been in the program for a few weeks. So they knew about me. They knew about, I was a historical reenactor and that I was into being a pirate. They also knew about my work. And someone said, Hey, why aren't you taking the pirate part of you and the designer part of you and bring them together as your brand? And I'm like, I'd never thought about that. I was like, well, because that's what I do over here as a pirate. And this is what I do over here. It's like, yeah, but. It's both you, you know, you are in both of those worlds So bring them together. Yeah, and I thought about it for about six months and I thought I don't know Is this going to be hokey? Are people going to understand? Are they going to take it seriously? So finally I did. So we had the main event at the end of the workshop was to give a two minute pitch and there was a bunch of people there. I came out, I was not in full kit, but Did you have time to go run and get I, I was, I was dressed appropriately. Okay. And I went out and I gave my two minute pitch and I talked about what I do in a way that resonated with people and they understood the brand. Now that night I didn't No, if it had worked or not, but about three weeks later, I was with a group of people taking a tour of a new building downtown and there was a woman in the group kept looking back at me and I thought, Oh man, we've met somewhere at a networking event. I don't remember her name. This is going to be awkward, right? She comes back. She points right at me. She goes, You're the pirate. And I said, what? She goes, you're the pirate. I was there that night at pitch night. We didn't talk that night, but I remember your pitch. And I said, this is going to work. And so I had to go through that journey myself. Of finding that authentic part of me and put it as part of my brand and I've had a blast being a pirate and helping people with their brand strategy and their design needs. So when I go to a networking event now and they give you the little stick on label, I just write pirate and I have the most interesting conversations with people because if I were a graphic designer in there, no one would talk to me, right? But I put pirate on there and we talk about all sorts of things and it's a great way to sort of get past that barrier of, you know, well, what do you do, you know, for a living, what's your business and all this. We just start talking about pirates and then we eventually get over to brand strategy and stuff like that. But I find people are far more interested in the pirate. Wow. So it kind of like clicked for you and it was like a realization, huh? And I said, I need to help other people take the same journey. Right to go from I want to appeal to everybody To no, let me find that unique thing about myself find my authentic brand and then Put that out there and the people that resonate with that Will be my clients will be the people that want to work with me and I want to work with them so I went through the same process and I want to help other people go through that same process as well and some of them are You know, get it more than others. The ones that do, it's awesome. You know? Wow. So you find that realization must have been freeing to be able to be yourself. And do you see that? Like once it clicks for your clients, they're like that they feel like they can be themselves instead of this position, this title, right? Right. Because really what they're bringing, like you were talking about earlier and and how you work with your clients, you're bringing you. To this process, right? So you want to dress appropriately. You want to talk appropriately for your market space, right? But you're bringing you and you want to bring the authentic you to that process because that's what who people are going to work with If you bring a facade They're going to see through that pretty quick Yeah So you might as well bring your authentic you Because that is your brand and that is what people you're either going to enjoy working with or say yeah This isn't for me. Let me go find somebody else and that's fine You You know, anybody who has spent more than five minutes in marketing knows the golden rule. It's like, you're not marketing to everybody. I love how unique people are. And when I go to networking events, I try to break that barrier. Like I try to see who they really are or bring that person out. And I'm like, There they are. It is awesome. It is awesome when you can get to that. Yeah. And I used to, used to network with this fellow who sold life insurance, right? The most exciting thing you could ever do, sell life insurance, right? So what he used to do is he would go to networking events and he would write on his name badge, Time Traveler. So of course people were like, tell me about time traveling. And he used it as a way of talking about, look, I help people prepare for that point in the future that they don't want to really think about. Cool. But they need to right so if you could go back, you know and tell your younger self Hey, you should have life insurance because here's all the reasons why it's important for the people around you that's my job is to help them time travel and understand the value of life insurance and i'm like Yeah I like that and that set him apart and it allowed him to have conversations with people about what was really important. The policy is the policy, but what's really important is their loved ones who were going to benefit from that policy. It was all about connections. It was all about connecting with other humans. So he brought his authentic self to that process and out came Time Traveler. So back to real estate agents, there's like 6, 500 last I checked agents in Rhode Island out of those 6, 500 someone or a bunch might be focusing on that niche that. The person who's trying to create their niche is focusing on. So how to deal with that or how do they feel more confident? Like, because if that was the case, like let's say firefighting, that's my thing. And I realized, Oh my gosh, there's a hundred of those 6, 500, there's a hundred agents who are also firefighters who brand themselves as that and feel intimidated about being a firefighter showing that I'm a firefighter. So how does someone. In that scenario, that's an interesting hypothetical. So if I were Working with somebody who was, you know firefighter and a real estate agent I don't know if I would necessarily say well you need to brand yourself as a fire Fighter, but there's something about what they do That we could probably bring through to the real estate side, right? And so part of the process would be sitting down with them and say, well, why are you a firefighter? What is it about firefighting then? Gets you up in the morning. And so they may talk about, you know, wanting to help other people. They might talk about the excitement and the challenge of fighting these fires. But there's something in there that's authentic that we can then bring over to the real estate side. Well, here's something that you can apply to what you do in real estate that will make you a little distinctive, set you apart and allow the real part of the real you to come through. Does that make sense? Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't have an algorithm, but a lot of it is conversations with my clients. And I do workshops to bring some of this stuff out. So for example, typically a brand strategy will include mission, vision, and values. So we'll start with values and we'll talk about, you know, what are the most important things to you? And we'll focus on those. Vision is interesting because a lot of people are so sort of trapped in the day to day. So one of the things that I've done for helping with them thinking about vision. Is I'll do an interview with them, but I'll do an interview 10 years in the future and I asked them to pretend Wow, you're 10 years in the future Tell me what's going on now. And what it does is it disconnects them from the day to day and allows them to fantasize and think about where do I want to be in 10 years? What is the vision for my company or for my organization? And I say, there's no limit, right? If you tell me that you've done Ted talks already, you're a best selling author, or, you know, you've been asked, you know, to be part of, you know, the UN, you It doesn't matter anything, and it really frees them up to think about things that they don't think about in the busyness of the day to day. And so in that interview, I usually find three or four things then that we can focus on to say, okay, here are the core components of your vision. Here's where you say you want to be in 10 years. Now, how can we put that together as part of your overall brand strategy? What are the things we can pull out to help you Find that authentic part of you and it's a really interesting process because it's different every time I do it Yeah, every time there was a one woman I worked with she is a medical professional. She works for the VA She wanted to start a assisted living facility. That was much more like a home And a facility, right? And so we were doing the process and she's really struggling with the name, right? And she had come up with all these names that were fine, but they were kind of vanilla, right? So I said, well, tell me about your experience. Why did you want to get into health care in the first place? Why do you want to help people? And so she told me this story. She's a Haitian immigrant and she told me the story about growing up and how every day after school, her favorite place to hang out. Was at her grandmother's because that's where everything was happening Her grandmother was always cooking some sort of meal And it was just a really welcoming place to be And it felt like home And I said that's really interesting. I said What what did you call your grandmother? She goes. Oh, I called her nana and I said That's your name. It's nana's house Whoa, and she Now I don't say this to brag, but she literally started crying. She's like yes That's the kind of Vibe that I want this place to have that's the kind of feeling I want people to have when they come into this assisted Living facility. It's Nana's house. And so it's not like I came up with something But we took that journey together and when I saw something I was like, hey, I think this is valuable. Yeah, let's pull this out And it clicked. So those are the kind of experiences I like to have with my clients because it is like going on a journey, right? Or think about it like a road trip, right? You're going from, you know, here to the coast. And what makes the trip interesting is the things that you discover along the way, right? And the experiences you have as you make this trip, it's. Yeah, it's the destination, but it's really what's happening along the way, and what are the things that later on when you're telling people about this journey, what are the stories you're telling them, right? Oh, we stopped at this place, and they had like the biggest ball of yarn in the world, or, you know, it's something that, That is important to them to communicate the value of that journey, right? Those are some of the things that I do with my clients, which I have a lot of fun with. I really do like that part of what I do. It does sound really cool. Let's say they find that. Aside from like going out and meeting people and networking events and saying, what's a good way for them to promote that? There's about a million different ways to market yourself. I personally think that a website is an important hub. It doesn't matter how big or how small your organization is. People will come to your website to sort of vet you and figure out like, are you legit? What are you about? So your website is a good place to communicate. A lot of that part of your brand, so. Writing is important. I work with a lot of really talented copywriters and they are worth their weight in gold. So to be able to take the work I do with clients as far as the brand strategy, and then take that to a copywriter and say, here's their brand, here's their tone of voice, here's their personality. Now, we need some marketing copy that resonates with this brand. It's extremely important. Visuals are extremely important as I'm sure, You know, someone in what you do understands. So I, again, I work with a lot of really talented photographers and videographers. You know, I work with a lot of talented developers and coders. So one of the things that I do is I put together a team that will bring all of these pieces together into their website, into their social media feeds, into print marketing, outdoor advertising if necessary, even things like podcasts, right? But that brand is driving all of that content. And the content contains the message and the imagery contains the message. And when it's all working together, it's like an orchestra, right? And you want something like the Boston Pops that's communicating your message and not a junior high band, right? So you want to make sure that this is all working together and is communicating the right message to the right audience. So I really love what I do, but I stay in my lane. So I get to work with all of these other talented people, like copywriters. Marketing experts, social media, people, photographers, videographers, SEO people to help bring that whole thing together and get it communicated in an effective way. Wow. Okay. So the marketing is not like a cutter. Type of thing, it's got to be unique to what their niche is. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's one of the things that we work, you know, sort of the marketing phase of things is like, what's the best way to get your message out? You know, when website's important, but outside of that, you know, does it make sense to be on social media? Well, which channels, right? Is direct mail work for you? Right? Does speaking engagements, maybe that's the best way to get your marketing out. It really depends on who the audience is that they're trying to reach. Because if you can figure out where the audience is hanging out, you can target your marketing to the audience. It's not a cookie cutter process at all. It's like trying to figure out like, Okay. Where's your audience? Well, let's go to them. Right. Like I said, there's a thousand different ways to market yourself. The trick is finding the most effective way to do it. Cause not everybody's got a million dollars to market. Right. So you got to make those dollars work. What's the term rebranding to you? Like, how would you, I think one way to look at it might be like a house renovation, right? You find a place and it's the right location and it's got good bones. You know, the structure's there. But man, it needs a lot of help, right? Because it's sort of past its prime. And you know, the essence of it is there, but you really need to rework it. So, you know, you've, you've got the place, you redo the electrical, the plumbing, paint, everything, and you restore the house, right? So rebrand is kind of like that. I'll work with a lot of clients that have been in business, you know, five, 10, 15 years, and they just feel like the brand they have isn't quite a right fit anymore. So we'll go in and look at, okay, well, what's worth keeping. And what needs to be reworked right now can be something as simple as we're just touching up the visual brand, the logo and all of the accompanying stuff so that it's a little bit more contemporary, or it could be going in and completely gutting the whole thing and saying, we need to rework this so it really. It's kind of on a spectrum and it really depends on client to client. Interesting. That's a good way to explain it, especially to a realtor, you know, redoing the house, right, right. You know how to speak the language. I try. Is there anything I missed as far as a branding? I mean, a lot, but I think the most important thing for me is authenticity. And we definitely talked about that. There's a lot of talented. Designers out there. There's a lot of talented brand strategists out there. And you know, the, for me, I like to focus on the authenticity and really helping people find that unique thing about what they do and why they do it. And bring that through to the brand. So the strategy, the visual brand, getting it out into the marketing, communicating that message, that's the way I like to work. And so for me, that's probably the most important part is helping them, you know, find that authentic part of themselves. Hmm. That's not easy to do. I mean, you've done it for a long time. So to you, it's, you know what to ask and how to push people. I've definitely gotten better over the years when I first started doing it, it was a little hit and miss, but I have a genuine interest in other people's stories and like, you know, how they came to be the people that they are. So I think that drove a lot of it. And, you know, sort of honing my skills over time and picking up little tools and processes, but the interest has always been there. You know, if I was able to somehow, you know, make a living by just interviewing people, I'd probably do that. Yeah. Cause people are fascinating. And especially when you get to talk to them about the things that drive them and get them out of the bed in the morning and, you know, really light their fire. Yeah. Wow. So just how do people find you? Well, you can find me online at I'm also on LinkedIn. You can also come to any one of the pirate events that I do throughout the year. So there I am, which is what, well, I am part of a crew, an official reenactment crew called free men of the sea. So the British ones that you mentioned where they can go in and they have the right, Oh, the letter of Mark. Yeah. Yeah, it depends on the event, you know, so if we're in an event where other reenactors that are reenacting, you know, British officials, we have a letter of Mark always at hand just to make sure there's no problems. Freemen of the Sea, we do events throughout the year and you'll find us at Gatsby Days or at the Newport Parade at St. Paddy's Day. So we're, we're all over the place. Wow. And what do you guys do? We do festivals and parades. We'll also do reenact historical events. We get invited to a lot of places like historical locations to either come and do like a show and tell of, you know, nautical equipment, weapons, sort of talk about that period of time. Or do you want a ship? Well, we don't have a ship at the moment. But, I mean, if they had a ship, they're like, we need some pirates to take some pictures. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. One of our favorite places is Mystic Seaport. Uh huh. There's a ship down there called the Morgan, which is a completely refurbished whaling ship. We've spent a lot of time on that. In and around Mystic Seaport. So, we do probably about two or three events for them a year, and hangouts. So, we also like Newport. Newport's really cool. Newport has a long history. History of Pirate activity. Really? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, it's great. I love it's sort of a combination of entertainment and education and every time people see us, they go, Oh, the pirates are here and they just, they're always so happy to see us, even though we show up like arms of the teeth. They're just like, Oh, this is great. So we'll do things like shanty strolls where, you know, we'll go down to Newport and we'll just go from pub to pub and sing shanties and stuff like that. Accent. You do the accent and everything. Some of our crew do, I've tried to do it. I just don't have the knack for it. So this is what you get when you hear me. New age pirate. Yeah, but yeah, we just have, we have a great time doing reenacting and just sort of educating people about the whole. Time and lifestyle and entertaining them. I mean, it's, it's great to bring a smile to somebody's face when they hear a shanty or, you know, their little kid comes up and wants to have a picture with a pirate and yeah, it's a lot of fun. Awesome. Well, thank you very much for stopping by. Thanks for having me. And, uh, yeah, maybe we'll have you back in the future to talk about marketing those niches. That would be awesome. You like that. Marketing of those niches. Yeah. Yeah.. I can see the t-shirt.. Thank you. Thanks Camille.